Tom Kraeutler:
Do it yourself or want more than anything else for their projects to come out. Right? And guess what, if it doesn't come out right, they're gonna blame the product. They always blame the paint, not the painter, right? But whether they're right or wrong, they're gonna quickly switch loyalty. If they feel like they're let down,
Mike Fowler:
Hey, how's it going? Retail fans, welcome back to Retail Oriented. I am your host, Mike Fowler. I am the VP of Retail sales here at the Sales Factory. Um, we are really excited to be back in this studio because today we've got a special guest. We've got Tom Kraeutler from the Money Pit. You've probably heard his radio show, checked out his website, checked out the podcast, learned about how to do a d I y project through Tom and a lot of his guests and call-ins help me welcome Tom Kraeutler to the show. Tom, thanks so much for joining us. Um, tell us a little bit about yourself. How'd we get sitting here?
Tom Kraeutler:
Hey, Mike. Yeah. Hey, thanks for having me. And I am equally a fan of the sales factory, so I appreciate the opportunity to, to just to compare notes, so to speak. But, uh, yeah, so, you know, I'm a nationally syndicated home improvement radio host. I started my career. You know, you never choose your career path or, or understand how exactly it's gonna turn out all the twists and turns along the way. But, you know, I originally, uh, when I was much younger, went to school to learn how to be a shop teacher. Now we don't have too many shop teachers anymore. Pretty much have eliminated that and that's caused some issues in the DIY space, which we'll talk about in a minute. But, you know, I started there and went from there into construction, uh, and then from there into home inspection. So that was my, my progression.
And as a home inspector for many, many years, I was in that position of sort of still being the teacher, right? Still having those very interested students cuz they were very nervous and very concerned about the quality of the home that they were purchasing. And, you know, it was my job to basically be that forensic examiner. And I got, I got pretty good at it. You know, doing over 6,000 home inspections and learning, you know, not only how homes are put together, but most importantly how they fall apart and where their weak parts are and their weak systems are based on the age of the house. And then I was rolling along doing just fine when someone said, Hey, can you be a guest on a radio show? And I'm like, I guess, you know, sort of just like doing the same thing. And that was the beginning.
I, I started being a guest on a radio show. And once you show up, once they, they ask you to come back again and other stations ask you and so on and so forth. And, you know, then I had this, uh, idea that, hey, why don't I do my own show? And that was back, uh, in the, in the late nineties. And I started on one station in Central New Jersey. Um, and I was on every other week an inauspicious start. Uh, one week they had the law show where you would ask the lawyers about the law. And the other week was the Home ment show. And that's where I fit in. And that was my humble beginning. And, you know, we got syndicated in 99, started on a dozen stations, and now we have over 400 stations carrying the money pit, uh, coast to coast, uh, and floorboards of shingles like we like to say. So that, that's basically my story. That's how I got into it. And, uh, never looked back. I certainly, uh, don't miss climbing those roofs and going through the crawl spaces and yeah, you know, all of those <laugh>, other parts of the home inspection job that used to do many times a day. And I love just educating homeowners and DIYers about what it takes to, to care and feed for their house, basically.
Mike Fowler:
That makes a lot of sense, especially the home inspection side, because I've listened to some of your shows and I'm like, how on earth does Tom know that about that? And, and it seems like you've got, uh, uh, you've got knowledge about a lot different little pieces of home improvement, maintenance, remodels, new projects, whatever it is. You've touched a lot of different things. So it, you kinda learned in the field, right?
Tom Kraeutler:
I, I did learn the field, of course, I had a very hands-on background growing up, you know, um, my dad was handy and he passed that knowledge on to me. And, uh, you know, he was working for a company that that built library shelving and it was an unusual job and he was in the office side of it. But on the weekends he used to do installations and he would take me along and I would, you know, learn about fasteners and learn about attaching big heavy metal things to walls and, you know, so I had that sort of tactical upbringing, which, which definitely helped me, you know, in my, my very odd career path. Um, but yeah, I think one of the things that's used that's unusual about our program is that both myself and my co-host, Leslie Segretti, uh, come at this not just as hosts.
You know, we didn't come from, you know, the talent, so to speak, side of this. We, we came at this just from the position of being experts in the space and, and having that, that background and that makes what we do, you know, very unusual. I mean, Leslie, um, originally went to school to be a set designer and she worked behind the scenes for many years and then she worked, uh, in front of the camera on shows, like while you're out in Trading Spaces, did over 600 episodes of those shows. Uh, and today she's back behind the scenes as the, uh, art director and scenic designer for Good Morning America. So we've always been involved in the professional side as well as doing the show. And I think that's what has, uh, made it possible for us to speak to a wide variety of, uh, consumers and pros.
You know, pros know when they're talking to a pro and you know, I, I find it, um, really a special moment when pros call me and ask me to solve their problems. So I'm really happy to be able to do that. Um, but they're all, of course, it's also special when they call to argue with me and tell me, I don't, I, I maybe gave some bad advice, <laugh>, that's ok too, you know, but to talk to pros and talk to consumers and, and help them with their careers and help them with their homes, uh, you know, we felt very privileged to do that.
Mike Fowler:
Yeah, that's, I I heard a pro call in to an episode recently talking about a sliding glass door and kind of offering a different perspective. So it's really interesting to to hear how even pros are learning. They're trying to share knowledge, um, in, in a lot of different ways and channels. You, you talked about your background, very hands on. What are you seeing in your audience today? And, and kind of talk us through who are the people that are calling in, who are the people that are kind of paying attention to the money pit and what are you seeing and and how has that changed since when you started to today? Cuz I'm sure it has.
Tom Kraeutler:
We know that our audience is, is active, they're engaged. We know that they're, they're very qualified. Um, we measure our audience a lot. We know that about three quarters, about 72% are listening to us to seek information, to help guide their home related purchases and improvements. We, we know that they're frequent purchasers. We know that about half of them are purchasing at a rate of once a month or more often, which is really significant. And we know that, although, you know, we are often thought of as a d I Y show, we're not just a d i y show. We are equally a doit for me show. You know, we talk to consumers that are doing the projects themselves and want that guidance. But just as frequently we talk to consumers that wanna hire a pro, but they wanna be educated, um, when that pro comes in.
So they want to understand the products, the materials, the procedures. They wanna know what to ask for. You know, they wanna know how to create a spec, which we often advise, whether it's a simple project or a complex one, so that you have an apples to apples opportunity to compare what a pro is offering. Uh, we spoke about tradesmen. We know about 30% of the audience, um, are in the trades or are in families that have tradesmen. Uh, there's slightly more males than females that listen to us, uh, about 53% versus 47. And and the very largest majority, uh, are homeowners of course. So that's sort of the overview of the, of the demo, um, of the audience. But what, what do they look like? I mean, what do they know and, and how are they different? What do they want? Well, I'll tell you this, they know a lot less than their parents' generation.
Um, they have little how-to knowledge. Um, they have little experience with tools. You know, I mentioned that I, I was at one early point of my career, uh, a shop teacher. Well, schools have all but dropped classes like shop that taught some very basic schools. And it wasn't like if you took shop, you were going into the trades, you know, that was vocational education. But, you know, you were learning literally which end of the hammer to hold some really basic things. I remember when I was student teaching and I had a supervisor and uh, we were teaching sixth graders and he was talking about a hand saw, a regular crosscut hand saw, and you'd see the kids use it and, you know, they would have a habit of just like going back and forth about three inches at a time, you know, with the saw.
And he'd say, uh, you know, to, to Johnny or Jimmy or Sally, he'd say, you know, when I bought that saw, did you think I paid for a little bit of it? Or you think I paid for the whole thing? And they'd say, I think I had to buy the whole thing. Like, well, that's right and that's why you have to use the whole saw. You know, so they were learning, you know, these very basic tips about how to handle tools. And I think that that basic knowledge helped make them, um, more, uh, you know, more ready to take on the projects that they might see around their house. But we're not seeing that today as much because of that, that drop. And I think that also opens up opportunities, um, for, uh, do it fores to have a problem finding quality contractors do those pro to do those projects.
It's really challenging. Um, you know, they're also more at risk from unscrupulous contractors cause they don't have the experience combined with that short supply. I also think the consumers are confused by the volume of information that's out there. You know, it's, there's so much white noise, there's so much information. So they often seek our advice to help sort of cut through that noise and get to the key issues that they need to be concerned about it. And very often, you know, we're clarifying a lot of that information or we're sort of completely putting them in a different direction. And I think the, the biggest response we get is just relief and comfort in understanding, you know, kind of how to take care of whatever they want to do. I also think that, of course, they're very inspired by projects on social media, on YouTube, on, on TikTok. Uh, but they're also frustrated, you know, when the projects don't go as easy as perhaps the Polish video that inspired the project in, in, in the first place. So I think that's kind of where the audience is today, if that makes sense.
Mike Fowler:
We've got a lot of of clients that are manufacturers providing to the big home centers. Um, and we're seeing that with consumers and, and how they're walking into home centers, the knowledge base that they have when they walk in. Can you talk through a little bit about how are, how are they educating themselves on projects on what to purchase on, you know, tools and stuff like that? Cuz you, you mentioned it's changed a lot from when you were teaching shop, you were learning from your dad. You know, I, I'm the same way. I learned. My dad had some rental properties and I was in this in every summer. I was out working on rental properties. That's changed a lot, um, to consumers that are shopping today. And so talk through a little bit about how are they learning, because it's, it's evolved a lot from hands-on learning to different, different ways. So what are you seeing?
Tom Kraeutler:
You know, if you think about all, all sort of sources, there are definitely more DIYers now, especially, uh, in the current economic climate and coming out of the pandemic, people have been more inspired to take on these projects. Uh, d i y knowledge is more accessible and, and that in and of itself has inspired consumers to take on more. It definitely heavy, heavily invested in the comfort and convenience of their homes. And, and I think we've seen some shift in the projects that they, that they take on. You know, for example, if you look something like the home office, I remember five years ago when I looked at, you know, top 10 projects and that sort of thing that we were asked about home office was, was almost always towards the bottom, you know, 7, 8, 9 or or 10. And recently it's become, you know, really a top five project consistently because of the number of folks that are, that are working, uh, from home.
I think that economically, um, because of the pandemic, lot of folks have caught up with their sort of what we call the someday projects. You know, someday I'll do this and someday I'll do that, well someday arrive. And they decided to, since they weren't spending money on vacations and everything else, to take on those projects and, and get them done. So, you know, I think that there's a little bit of a readjustment happening now because a lot of the projects that, you know, would've been at a slower pace were done all at once. And so maybe there's a little less of of some of that now. But I also think that the d i y have projects have changed in the sense that they are more emboldened to take on bigger projects, um, projects bigger than perhaps their parents' generations. And sometimes that's great, but also sometimes it's a deterrent because we always find ourselves cautioning beginners, you know, to start small and build up and, and stay away from the projects where you can get hurt or, or create a, a dangerous situation.
Mike Fowler:
That makes a lot of sense. The, the bigger projects, the d i y explosion that we saw, uh, post pandemic or during pandemic has been an an interesting thing for retailers, manufacturers, everybody to kind of, to come to grips with. So w what are you seeing from a consumer side in terms of, of kind of trust? Where do they trust right now? Are they trusting brands? Are they trusting particular YouTube channels? You guys obviously have got a good trust-based relationship because you've given good solid advice. Where, where can DIYers and pros that are looking to, to learn and educate themselves? Where is that trust or where are you seeing that trust, um, given,
Tom Kraeutler:
Well, I mean, dad was the original influencer, right? <laugh> dad was the original influencer. And, and now it is people like us. It's, it's people that are in, in media and, and in the public eye. Uh, and that's something that we work to, you know, to earn every single day. I think word of mouth is still a factor, um, but it's a largely inefficient way to find a good contractor, for example. Cuz you're limited to the people that you know, who may or may not have done projects similar to what you want to do. Um, I think that reviews certainly have a bigger influence, and that's something we've really seen grow dramatically over the last several years. You know, it started out that, you know, we had reviews of products and, um, you know, I think manufacturers were always concerned about anything negative. Uh, but then they learned how to respond to those and, and understand they're always gonna have their haters and always gonna have their advocates.
And, you know, they, they're, they really have become much better at working with the, the review sites. And I do think the review sites that are done well, um, have a bigger influence now than than ever before, as long as they're credible and they're balanced. You know, we don't have review sites where, you know, anybody who is a competing contractor or manufacturer can say bad things about somebody that's, uh, compet. They're competing against, you know, to their, to their own benefits, so to speak. But I think the technology has gotten better where, you know, reviews are pretty reliable. And I always encourage, you know, my audience to use those reviews when they're trying to make a decision on something. Especially something like a, a product where, you know, you're comparing one particular brand of a product against another brand's, uh, uh, product that might be similar in price and, and see how folks have had experiences with it.
And the same thing with contractors. You know, you can, some, all of the most, all of the sites that are contractor referral networks today have excellent review programs. And I strongly encourage our audience to use those. You know, very common question we get is, do I know a contractor in such and such a market that does X? Well, I wish I did. I'm, I'm not that good <laugh>, I don't have that kinda encyclopedic knowledge, but I can tell you how to find one. I can tell you what to ask for when you do find one, I can tell you how to create a set of specifications so that you know, when you have three contractors in to give you prices that they're all gonna be talking about the same project. So it'll be easy to make those to comparisons. Um, so I think that's kind of where we're at now. It's, it's the influencers, um, and folks like us and review sites are what people are really leaning to, uh, the most,
Mike Fowler:
You know, talking about dad as the original influencer and, and the days of asking your neighbor for a great contractor there, there's still some of that out there, right? That exists. But it is now got a lot of other context with reviews, YouTube, it, it's just changed in terms of how people are making a decision in the marketplace. And manufacturers, contractors, retailers, they're all kind of figuring out, okay, how do we, how do we deal with that? How do we cope with this? So in, in terms of thinking about how do we cope with that, what, what are you seeing as from a, a consumer and a i y standpoint and even some contractors as as well, what are they looking for more from brands? So the products that are out there, um, what are they trying, what are they yearning for more from these brands that maybe they're not getting to today?
Tom Kraeutler:
Well, you know, if you start by talking about, you know, how are, how are consumers making these choices at, at retail? I think they are more educated than ever before because of the wealth of information. They've done their homework before they step in the door. But that said, I think they're still often confused by that depth of choice. And I'll give you two examples of that that I see frequently. Uh, let's think that you're, let's say you are in a home center and you need to buy a 60 watt light bulb. Well, problem is you're walking up and down the light bulb aisle and you're not finding it and you're walking up and down again. You're still not finding it because there are no 60 watt light bulbs for sale anymore, right? You've gotta find the l e d bulb with the equivalent lumens. The problem is that manufacturers are not all that good about putting the equivalent wattage.
And I know that there's a scientific and a mathematical difference between watts and lumen. And so, but let's face consumers equate watts not with power consumption. They equate watts with a level of, of, of intensity coming outta that bulb. And that's what they wanna replicate. So why don't we just give it to 'em and make it easy, you know, say that it's similar to some of the lum are similar to a 60 watt bulb or a hundred watt bulb, but we miss those opportunities. And another product that I think I see the same kind of thing happening is caulk, right? Go down the caulk aisle of a home center. You have dozens and dozens of choices and you see folks reading the labels. The problem is they're trying to figure out if this product is good for their use. This is the right caulk for a kitchen or bath is this caulk that will stick to brick.
Problem is you can't read the labels because it has the smallest type as you've ever imagined, <laugh>. And I even see people taking pictures of the tube and then blowing it up on their phones just to see if it will work on an outside window, you know? So I think we're missing opportunities to educate our consumers in the way we present the, the labeling. I think it's an area where brands, you know, can sort of miss the boat, but I think that there are really big opportunities, uh, for brands to become a steady, trusted voice, uh, in d i y and, and do it for me education. You know, I think that do it yourself or want more than anything else for their projects to come out, right? I mean, that is their goal. And guess what, if it doesn't come out right, they're gonna blame you, <laugh>.
They're gonna blame the product. They blame the paint, not the painter, right? I can't tell you how many times a call will start on my show with a consumer saying, I apparently I had some bad paint and this happened. I'm like, well, did you prime it? Well, no, because I had bad paint. No, no, you have to prime the surface first. They always blame the paint, not the painter, right? But whether they're right or wrong, they're gonna quickly switch brand loyalty if loyalty, if they feel like they're let down. So I think we need to understand that mindset, and we need to look for opportunities to connect products with projects. I think that retailers and manufacturers need to be a leading source, if not the leading source of how to information about their products. You know, you have the credibility with consumers that many other sources simply don't, and DIYers want to know how to do it once, do it right, not have to do it over and over again to get the product, you know, to work.
So I, I think that there's a real big opportunity there to improve the education. I also think that retailers should set higher standards with their manufacturers when it comes to things like providing clear owners manuals or product use instructions. How many times have we opened up a product guide for a new product and had difficulty following along and the way that it was put together? How many times have you opened one up and, and seen, uh, clearly that perhaps it was not written by someone whose English was their primary language, that it was translated from another language and therefore has rather awkward phrasing stuff that's confusing for the average person. This is all part of the education. Imagine if you were given a textbook like this and expected to, you know, to pass a course based on it, it would be very difficult to kind of undo that.
So I think setting high standards for, for instructions and product use videos and things like that with manufacturers is, is really, really important. And order offering good customer support options. You know, think about a product, like I said, we try to guide people away from doing work that's dangerous. Well, electricity certainly falls in that category if you're not familiar with electricity. But a manufacturer like Lutron early on before we had any concerns about the things that we're talking about today, they instituted a 24 7 toll free customer support number that is staffed by people that can give you solid advice on how to wire their products. I mean, I think that was really, uh, amazing and something that people needed, and everybody should be doing this sort of thing, right? You need to be there when your consumers have the questions and give them the tools that they need to make those informed decisions.
You know, if you're selling decking, give them deck planners. If you're selling ac, give them sizing calculators. Um, think about what you can do in the aisle to help contribute to d i y education. Do more demos, do more workshops. You know, on our show, a lot of the stuff that we do is to integrate programming with product and brand education. We'll do a tip series where we'll combine a project with product guidance. We'll do a segment sponsorship that's aligned with a product like, um, smart Spending Tips presented by Bank of America or Outdoor Living Tips, uh, presented by Treks or Energy Efficiency presented by Owens Corning. And connecting the product with the project really helps to elicit those in the audience, in our case that are interested in that topic, and educate them and give them good, impartial, expert advice on how to achieve what they wanna achieve in the first place, which is success in all those areas.
Um, you know, make your experts available. We put experts on the show all the time because we just don't want to have a commercial about a new product. We want the in depth behind the scenes. Why did you create this product? What's different about it than your prior products? What advantages are there to consumers that maybe want to go in this direction? So, you know, making your experts available for those opportunities is good. And even creating custom podcasts, you know, we've created several custom podcasts for retailers that want to educate their target customers. You know, we just wrapped up a two year project, uh, called Profiles Pro podcasts that we did for LL Flooring, where we did leaders in the flooring space, uh, that, uh, their, their customers were very interested in hearing from. So, I mean, the bottom line is, I think the real retailers need to go all in, Mike, when it, when it comes to educating their consumers to earn and maintain credibility and loyalty and trust. You know, whether it's a, a simple project or a complex project, I think the opportunity exists. It's there for the taking, but you need to dive in and you will find that you'll rank, uh, with all the other influencers out there as a leading source of information about your products,
Mike Fowler:
The wealth of education and available resources out there, that there is a lot of of clutter. So I, if you as a manufacturer or a retailer who, whoever you are, can take, uh, uh, proactive approach to educating your consumers, educating DIYers and pros, cuz it's not just consumers that are looking for information out there, it's pros and consumers. We know that it, there is so much low hanging fruit in terms of return on the investment made in, in education, in supporting consumers through, through customer service. There is just, there's dollars out there for these manufacturers and retailers if they invest in caring for their consumer. And that's how they build trust, right? So Tom, we, we've kind of talked through, you know, the opportunity that education provides for manufacturers and for retailers with their consumers. How do they bring that home? Or how, how do they really execute on that? Because, you know, just putting one thing out there, it may get seen, it may not get seen. How, how do they really become leaders in education?
Tom Kraeutler:
I I think it all comes down to consistency. Now, I, I think that whatever you do, whether you're a small brand manufacturer, product manufacturer, or a large retailer, whatever program you put in place, it should be consistent. You, you know, if I was to do my show, uh, on, on Saturdays and then I decided next Saturday I don't feel like it, and maybe next Thursday I'll do an episode, you know, that's not gonna work, right? Yeah, you've gotta be consistent. So whatever plan you put in place, see it through, all right? And if, and don't try to do too much because it's, it's difficult. We always say in my business, it's hard to feed the beast. The beast gets hungry every day. And I mean, by beast I mean the content piece, right? So, you know, we need to make sure that we are, we are being consistent with the material that we're putting out and, and becomes something that consumers can rely on.
You know, and certain things are more important than others, but if you're doing, if you're doing a series like we're doing today, and it's gotta be on a regular schedule, right? Uh, but even if you're doing videos, new videos and dropping them on every so often, don't just be in a hurry to put them up as soon as they're done. Think it through, right? And, and tee up each one, but be consistent. It's not a one and done kind of thing. You don't just, you know, do three videos and say, oh, that didn't work. I'm gonna move on to something else. No, you gotta be consistent because that's the only thing that builds credibility. You know, we've done 2300 episodes of the Money Pit podcast and even more radio shows. We were podcasting very early on. So you need consistency, you know, if you're to, if you're to follow up and follow through and get the benefit of it.
Mike Fowler:
For me, it kind of goes back to something my dad taught me early on, which is do what you say you're gonna do when you say you're gonna do it. And, and that, that consistency being reliable like that when you say you're gonna have a podcast up or you're gonna have a video for how to do this project, do it. And, and that is what builds trust. And we know consumers are, are shopping and engaging with brands that they trust. So I never let any guests go, um, without a couple of hot seat questions. And so the way that this segment of the show works is I'm gonna ask you like a quick fire question and I just want you to give me the first thing that comes to mind, right? So like kind of spur of the moment right off the top of the head. Um, whatever pops in into your mind. So first question is this, what was your very first home improvement project?
Tom Kraeutler:
Oh, okay. So I, I give you, well I'll give you two answers to that. You know, how I got into home improvement as the story goes in my family is that, you know, I was such a rambunctious kid that, um, my, my grandparents will put me out on their back porch with a block of nails and a hunk of wood. And, and that's how I entertained myself. So I dunno if you can call that home improvement, but that's how I got, uh, those tools in my hands early on. But I think my first sort of massive home improvement project was, uh, reciting, um, the house that I live in today. So I live in a home that's been in my family for over 130 years. It was built in 1886 and, um, when I was in college, uh, over a summer, uh, the siding, you know, was bad and had been gotten bad for a number of years.
And, and I kind of talked my dad into, uh, replacing it and I promised I would help words that I would, uh, learn to regret. But we spent the entire summer, uh, tearing off three layers of, uh, those two layers of cedar, cedar shingles and one layer of clapboard and insulating the walls from the outside and then putting up, uh, a new siding. So that was probably my first like, really big, big siding project, and it was a success. But I will tell you that I did not care to, uh, to, to touch a cedar shingle for many, many years after that because we hand nailed everything
Mike Fowler:
<laugh>. That's a pretty impressive first major undertaking on the project, Tom. But, uh, I'm guessing you learned a lot, um, and probably led to where you are today in some way.
Tom Kraeutler:
I certainly contributed to it, that's for sure.
Mike Fowler:
Yeah. And, and the, the early on tools in the hands, I think that would be first skill development and then first home improvement project. So we got two answers on there. That's, that's awesome. So we, we've talked a lot about positive stuff that you've seen, um, but I've also heard just listening to your show, some negative things that you've, you've seen out there and that you've gotten, uh, that have come across your path from callers and and so on and so forth. So tell us one, either d i y project or remodel, uh, trend that you'll be glad to see the back of that you want to see go and you're, you're sick of the pain that it's causing
Tom Kraeutler:
<laugh>. Um, how about popcorn ceilings? <laugh>, you know, there was a time when that was the ceiling of choice for millions and millions of homes, right? And, you know, I know why builders loved it because you only had to put on one coat of spackle to cover the nails and then the popcorn did everything else. But, but man, people hate popcorn and I understand it. It holds dirt, it looks terrible, so they wanna take it down. So I'll be glad when, um, when a, a bigger chunk of that popcorn is, is, is going and then I think that goes for other textured surfaces as well. Um, another popular project that I think is always done poorly, almost always is converting garages to living space. Mm. Now you've seen these, uh, probably not to the extent that I've seen them, but you can always tell when you have a driveway that goes like nowhere, right?
Seems to go right in up to a house, but there's no landscape bed. And typically from the inside, what people are doing is, um, that I've seen people like literally screw the garage door sh shut and then start to work on the inside and make it living space. That's a terrible idea. It's detriment to your property value and it's just not done right. If you want to convert your garage to living space, you need to build a knee wall where the doll door used to be and you need to frame it like everything else, and it needs to look like part of your house from landscaping, you know, on, on in. Um, but we see a lot of that. And I think another one that I would, that I would name would be three season rooms. I think three season rooms are popular, especially in the Southern Belt.
Um, because it seems like an easy way to do an addition, right? I mean, it's, it's like a kit problem is that those kits leak and since they're made by a manufacturer that may or may not still be in business, it's really hard to maintain them. So I'm not a big fan of those season rooms. Uh, three season rooms. Uh, and then lastly, I would say excessive carpeting, uh, over the amazing flooring choices that we have today. You know, I think carpeting, uh, you know, on steps maybe or, or or in a bedroom is a nice thing. But I think that's pretty much it for carpeting. I think that that product has seen its day.
Mike Fowler:
So if you're listening out there manufacturers, there's some projects to, to hone in on that, that DIYers might be taking on in the years to come. All right, last one. And this is a biggie, this is an important one. What's the one item in your toolbox? Cuz I know you're still using your toolbox often. What's the one item in your toolbox that you can't live without?
Tom Kraeutler:
That would have to be my, uh, 16 ounce s wing hammer, which is probably 30 years old. Leather grip, perfectly balanced, straight claw, always uses straight claw cuz I like the fact that you can use a hammer to demolish as well as build, right? Um, but uh, that just fits my hand, feels very natural when I have that on my, I have that on my waist in my tool belt.
Mike Fowler:
That's fantastic and I'm glad to hear you're still using your hammer. There's so many guys out there today that are just using power tools and don't know how to swing a hammer.
Tom Kraeutler:
Yeah, I, I still am and I, I, I wish I had more time. Um, the last big project I did was, was a deck, um, on my, uh, on a house that I purchased very near to where I live right now. And I fully intended, just so you think that people say, well, your projects must be perfect every time. So this had a wooden deck and the wooden was very solid, and I knew the guy that owned this house and he took really good care of it. But once I took the, so what I intended to do was do a composite deck makeover on, I did the Trex makeover. That was my goal, right? I figured I'd just take off the decks, take off the railing, and go up from there. Imagine my surprise when I found massive amounts of rot in the floor structure and ended up having to go right down, you know, to the dirt. So even guys like me, you know, we get surprised that's part of the, of the adventure of home improvement. You know, when we wrote our book, we called it My Home, my Money Pit, your Guide To Every Home Improvement Adventure. Because if you think about an adventure, you know, it never, it's always exciting delivering, but it never quite ends up right? Like, like he originally planned. So I think home improvement is an adventure, but I think it's a very fun adventure.
Mike Fowler:
Yeah. And I, I love the name of your show. It's all about perspective, right? Is it a money pit in the great way, or is it sometimes frustrating to us? Tom, thank you so much for being here. We have learned a ton about consumers, we've learned a ton about projects that they're taking on, about how they're getting information and making decisions about where there's low hanging fruit for education for consumers and retailers. We just really appreciate your wealth and knowledge and, and thanks for coming on the show.
Tom Kraeutler:
My pleasure, Mike. Thanks for having me.
Mike Fowler:
Well guys, we learned a lot today talking with Tom. He has a wealth of knowledge about everything from how to do a project and what tools to use to his consumers and listeners and how they're making decisions in retail spaces. There's a lot for us to learn and think about on, uh, how to engage with consumers from that perspective. So hopefully you learned something here today. We would love to hear about it in the comment section. Uh, and we'd also love to hear about what you'd like to hear more of from retail oriented. So shoot us a comment in the comment section, or you can email me at mike.fowler@salesfactory.com. Hit the like button, subscribe and click that little bell icon just to make sure you're getting the fresh content whenever we put it out. And remember when we're thinking about retail spaces, it's all about selling in and then selling through.